Stuart Dryburgh on Indie Films

**I contacted cinematographer Stuart Dryburgh, in Brooklyn, New York, for an interview. I thought we could have a great time talking about his cinematography on Men In Black - International. **

But he said to me that he had covered all that on so many occasions. So Stuart asked me to come up with a new angle and then we’d talk.

Stuart then suggested we talk of his work on indie films.

What defines an indie film?

An Indie film is any film that is made outside the traditional studio system. Not Walt Disney, not Warner Brothers, not FMG, not 20th Century Fox. And that’s the traditional definition of it. However more recently there are a lot of big movies being made by non-traditional studios or new generation studios like Legendary whom I did The Great Wall with, which was a multi-million dollar production but technically an independent film.

So I tend to extend the definition of independent film to non-studio financed film of a modest budget by American standards.

Considering your vast experience in mainstream films what was it like to work on indie films such as Gifted, The Only Living Boy in New York and The Upside?

I’ve always jumped backwards and forwards. My earliest films in New Zealand in NZ were independent films – Angel at My Table, Once were Warriors and even The Piano which had a very modest budget of around US$5 million in its day.

So I’m not a stranger to it (indie films). The first 2 films I did in the US, The Perez Family for Mira Nair and Lonestar for John Sales - were also low budget independent films.

I came back to NZ in the early 2000s to film with Brad McGann for In My Father’s Den, which was a wonderful experience.

My first studio film was Analyze This for Warner Brothers in 1997.

After doing 3 or 4 really big films in a row, Great Wall, Secret Life of Walter Mitty and Blackhat by Michael Mann, I was looking for something more personal.

So when Marc Webb offered me Gifted, I jumped at the opportunity to be able to work on a more collaborative level directly with the director without very much creative contribution from the studio and also the ability to take control of the whole photographic process. Gifted was mostly hand held, mostly single camera and mostly filmed by me.

It was a very personal, involved and hand made filmmaking.

What were the respective budgets of the 3 films?

The budget for Gifted and The Only Living Boy In New York million was around $12 million. The Upside, while with a budget of over $20 million, was still very much an independent film in its spirit. It was originally produced by the Weinstein company and there were some delays in its release when Harvey Weinstein got arrested.

It seems like a lot of money by NZ standards but it’s not.

And although they are independent movies they are still made under a union contract so you’re able to get your best crew.

But everything is tighter, there’s no set and no big visual effects.

The big difference between The Only Living Boy and Gifted and The Upside was that on The Upside over 50 percent of the film takes place in the penthouse apartment on Park Avenue.

We were able to have our production designer Mark Friedberg build the entire apartment into a studio space in Philadelphia.

We made it in Philadelphia and not New York is because it’s cheaper and there were tax rebates. Nevertheless it seemed to be a more commercial film. And we were able to get serious results. We were able to get enough money to build the set and light it and get it organized properly. There were more resources on that film than the 2 smaller ones.

There is another film that I may not have mentioned, which is Ben is Back, again around about $10 million dollar budget and made in New York state.

And again it was a very personal project for the director - Peter Hedges - another handmade film - very handheld and a very intimate process.

Do indie films require different filmmaking techniques? If so could you please elaborate on this?

The answer is no. All the same principles of your craft apply. It requires different management techniques. As a director of photography you end up doing a lot more of the heavy lifting than you would on a big film. But at the same time you spend less time dealing with management tasks - dealing with studios and producers and preproduction requirements and special effects. You can just get on with the old fashioned job of picking up the camera and shooting the movie.

So the technique is the same but the management of the process is different.

Did they differ in regards to the overall cinematography of the 3 indie films?

No, the main difference is that you may not have the same Hi-Tech resources that you might have on a bigger film.

So that if you’re doing a shot involving actors in a moving car, on a big Hollywood movie you might either do that as a process shot with a blue screen or green screen or you might do it on a very complicated moving rig like a trailer with cranes and all kinds of camera rigs on it. On an Indie film, you get in the car with the actors and they drive the car while they act. It’s that sort of level of difference.

What are some of the challenges of working with indie films?

Essentially the challenge is that you have less time, less money and less resources. But you can make that into a virtue. The challenge can sometimes manifest in interesting results. For instance in Honey Boy starring and written by Shia LaBeouf and shot by a young Danish woman cinematographer (Natasha Braier) is a spectacular looking film. But it’s very bare bones and very straight forward - it’s a great example of an indie film.

What are some of the highlights - in terms of craftsmanship - of working with indie films?

I have a very personal relationship with the camera, with the director and with the actors. To me it’s much more rewarding on a creative level. It’s right in the middle of the filmmaking process literally moving the camera, literally talking moment to moment with the actors and director and making very quick on the spur of the moment decisions with the director. It’s very stimulating, very exciting and very fast.

An indie movie schedule is typically between four to six weeks, whereas a big movie might be between 14 to 16 weeks.

From a personal point of view, I can run and play and work very hard for 6 weeks. But if I have to pace myself for 14 to 16 weeks, I can’t apply quite the same level of energy every day. It’s just the sort of person I am, I have a short attention span. So I like the short, hard and fast work.

What are some of the challenges for indie films in the recent times?

The challenge is always less for the cinematographer but more for the producer and director. It’s very much about attracting enough money and finding a bankable actor who can come to play.

For example with Ben is Back, the movie got made primarily because Julia Roberts came on board and played the role of mother. Without Julia Roberts we wouldn’t have had the film.

As far as your treatment goes what are the main differences between indie film and mainstream films?

I don’t change my style based on whether it’s an independent film or a studio film. I like to approach every single project big or small on its merit. I would shoot a film in a certain way based on the script and the director’s vision rather than how much money there is. Obviously the money may impose limitations but stylistically, believe it or not, the money is not going to be important.

What was it like filming cities like Philadelphia and NYC on an independent budget? Did you have to make compromises? Or change camera techniques?

Not really. On The Only Living Boy, we were in the streets in New York a lot and sometimes being on a smaller film with less people, less trucks and less equipment actually works to your advantage because you can move into a location and in and out of a location and work in a location much easier when you have less impact on the neighbourhood. An independent film works to your advantage in that situation.

I enjoyed the hang gliding scene towards the end in The Upside - care to comment on your treatment of this?

The approach to the hand gliding was shot on a hillside in Pennsylvania. Some of the actual flying is done with stunt doubles with very wide shots. But Bryan Cranston was very happy to be taken up and actually fly. We worked out ways of mounting small cameras in his wheelchair rig.

Kevin was less happy to go flying so we built a rig on the same flying location where there was a parachute hung from a construction crane that we could manipulate with guy wires. Some of it is against green or blue screen but mostly we were able to shoot against the sky. We had cameras mounted on the framework that suspends the flyers. It has the same feeling as the shots where Bryan was really flying and it plays very well in that respect.

How do indie films fare with technology advancing in the recent years, with the advent of platforms such as YouTube and other online platforms?

Films of this level with budgets of around 10 million dollars have in recent years been made by small studios such as Amazon and Netflix.

The current business model seems to be say Netflix will sometimes make a very expensive film, release it for a limited theatrical release but use it primarily to promote their platform, their streaming service and to get subscribers, because they don’t make their money per view, they make it from subscribers.

Aside from very big films such as The Irishman which Netflix made, they also make a lot of films within the independent budget range. It really has been a big stimulus in the United States and - I guess - for NZ as well for films in that budget range.

In terms of technology, the films I did with Marc Webb, Gifted and The Only Living Boy in New York, were both shot on 35 mm film.

There is a budget argument to be made for film in this day and age but primarily I think it’s fair to say that digital technology has made filmmaking more accessible at the low budget end. Cameras today are lighter and more flexible such as Alexa Mini which we used a lot on Ben is Back.

In terms of the internet side of it, these big streaming services are now financiers of independent films. For example The Only Living Boy in New York was made for Amazon.

Is there much scope for indie films today?

Yes. There is a lot of potential for work in the independent budget range that are ultimately destined for streaming services.